Change your campaign management tool is a need, most of the time, driven by the marketing team. And almost always, a reluctance to change on the part of the technical team. There's a lot of stress to deal with right from the start. A need to justify to IT the necessity of change for marketing.
Where does this stress come from? What's behind it? How can we kill this stress as quickly as possible? How to get the technical team on board for the tool change? What precautions should be taken during the crucial set-up phase? Which tasks should be carried out by marketing and technical staff? And what is the router's responsibility in all this?
We helped WWF France choose their new marketing campaign management tool. From writing the specifications to migrating data from the old tool to the new one. In a live chat, we'll be talking openly with 2 members of the WWF France organization: Sarah Leroi, Digital Marketing Manager, and Frédéric Souvay, Database Expert in the IT Department..
The live recording is available for replay
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The live recording is available in audio
The text transcription of the live
Marion Duchatelet - Badsender Hello everyone. Thank you Sarah and Fred for agreeing to share your feedback. To do so, they've chosen a subject that's perhaps a little taboo, or at any rate not much discussed on the web and not much discussed among routers. It's about the concerns that can arise when you want to change your routing tool. What I've noticed with the companies we help to change tools, is that this is a need that is most often expressed by the marketing team. This is perfectly normal, but there are always concerns that emerge from both the marketing and technical teams. So, right from the start, I find there's stress, or at least concerns, to deal with. That's what I'd like to talk about today. Thank you again for sharing your experience, since you experienced these things just a few months ago. Perhaps you could start by introducing yourself and explaining what you do at WWF France and what occupies most of your time? Sarah Leroi - WWF Okay, shall I start? Marion Duchatelet - Badsender Yes, honour to the ladies! Sarah Leroi - WWF I'm Sarah Leroy, Digital Marketing Manager for WWF France. Just to give you a bit of background, we're part of the Colette digital team. Fred and I are in the public generosity department, which is in charge of collecting donations. I'm in charge of collecting donations online with Lætitia and Marion. Lætitia is in charge of digital marketing and Marion is more in charge of acquisition. I'm more in charge of CRM. Frédéric Souvay - WWF Frédéric Souvay, better known as Fred. I've been with WWF for nearly seven years and I'm in charge of the database and statistics team. More specifically, on the database side, I'm in charge of ensuring the smooth running of the various tools, setting up new tools to support projects such as the one we're going to talk about today, and of course setting up the interfaces for all these tools. And I work with both the digital marketing teams and the offline teams. Marion Duchatelet - Badsender It's funny because I've always presented you as a technical person, and when we were preparing this live show, you said to me, "But actually, I'm not a technical person." Can you talk about where you are and why you consider yourself a horse? Sarah Leroi - WWF I'm not technical, I'm not IT at all, in the sense that I don't have that kind of background, I don't have any particular computer skills. It's always quite funny to talk about my background, insofar as I have a background in the life sciences, which has a very obvious link with our subject above. I worked for ten years in a start-up that developed databases and data enhancement for the pharmaceutical industry and research. It was there that I acquired technical skills, but more end-user skills in databases and data, and for the last ten years or so I've been working in the world of associations, fund-raising and marketing. I have both user and end-user experience. I'm not the one who codes, I'm not the one who develops, but I do have a good knowledge of database architecture, how tools communicate, how they're used, etc., how data is valorized. But I'm not a computer scientist, and my years spent in a marketing environment have given me a good understanding of the marketing business. Marion Duchatelet - Badsender This is perhaps the strength of any project. We'll come back to this later. Sarah, I remember our first discussion with Lætitia about wanting to change tools in March 2019. It came up again in our conversations and I think we had sent a first quote in March 2019. The support really began in March 2021. Why did it take so long? Were there already concerns on the marketing side that made it take so long? Sarah Leroi - WWF No, I don't think that's all there is to it. WWF is a big organization, so big projects take time. Time to get everyone on board. And then, I think that internally, it corresponded to the period when there was a lot of internal movement, notably in change of governance with the arrival of a new general manager. Then there were other moves more specific to our department. Our department merged with another department. There was also the ambition to deploy a digital strategy, which emerged and took shape. On the marketing side, we were well aware that there were going to be needs that, potentially, couldn't be met with current tools. We really felt the need to change tools. As a result, all these changes took time. But I don't think it was just the stress or the project itself. Marion Duchatelet - Badsender There was a whole organizational system between the governance and the organization, and the time it took for everything to fall into line stretched the project. Fred, I had a question. What was your first reaction when the marketing girls told you they wanted to change tools? Frédéric Souvay - WWF Great, a new topic. We're finally going to have some fun. Sarah Leroi - WWF We were already short of subjects... Frédéric Souvay - WWF It all depends on whether you look at it from a personal, intellectual point of view, or from a collective point of view, and in the interests of the structure. From a personal point of view, it's always interesting to work on new tools and interfaces. That's what interests me in my job. It's always fun. In fact, if you look at it from the point of view of the team's interests, constraints and everything else that needs to be done in parallel, it's obviously a significant phase of work. Between the moment when we specify our needs, launch a consultation, a call for tenders, when we study all that and afterwards, when we deploy, what we can continue to do at the moment, is time spent that is quite significant. Even so, everything else has to keep running during this time, because business never stops. There can also be the stress of finding the right window of opportunity when projects come up. Before, you'd say to yourself "OK, we've got a configuration that works, that's comfortable enough, that's low comfort enough, but we know it works. We're moving from a situation we know, that we've more or less mastered, to another that we don't necessarily know. Of course, there's always a risk of making a wrong choice. That can be a source of stress. And yes, there's also the fact that you have to find the right window of opportunity, not to choose the tool you're going to use, because there's always time, but the right window of opportunity to deploy it. Because in the end, in the fund-raising sector, public generosity is critical at the end of the year, and even more so for digital. In the second half of the year, it's just not possible to roll out a new solution which, among other things, is designed to send emailings. This means that we have to deploy it at the beginning of the year, to absolutely meet the deadline in order to be able to continue our business without damaging our collection. Marion Duchatelet - Badsender It's quite seasonal. It's at the end of the year that everything comes into play. That's why we specified in our specifications that the project should start in January. The migration dates from January, but that doesn't mean that the workshops to switch from one tool to another didn't start during this rather hot period, because we started the migration in October. Sarah Leroi - WWF Yes, that's right. The preliminary stages began at the end of the year, and the purely operational part started in January. The concern that can always arise in relation to this is that, in our experience, when new tools are deployed, they're by no means trivial. There's a lot of interfacing to be done, a lot of data exchange. We know that this often takes a little time. This delay has to be kept under control. Marion Duchatelet - Badsender A question from Pierre who asks, "Have you called on outside experts like Badsender to support you in this fine project?" I know the answer, but... Frédéric Souvay - WWF Apart from Badsender, no. We managed this internally and obviously with the service provider teams we selected, who play a very important part in the project phase. Quite simply because, despite everything, we have the resources to work on this type of subject. After all, for structures that don't have the resources or a minimum of technical expertise, it seems complicated to do it without external input. Marion Duchatelet - Badsender I'd like to come back to what you were saying, Fred, about the concerns about timing and also about saying "We've got something that works, on the technical side. The databases, for you, were going well." At this point, I'm going to turn to Sarah. When we were talking together, and in particular with Laetitia, did you feel that you lacked autonomy? On the other hand, were you pretty excited about changing tools, or were you worried about something other than the data side of things? Sarah Leroi - WWF I think it was both. There was the desire and the need to use another tool, and also stress and anxiety. As Fred says, even if initially the demand came more from the marketing side, and we at 100% never have a guarantee that the tool will be suitable, even if you do demos, etc., you still have stress. Because we had this need to be more autonomous in our way of working, without having to bother Fred every two seconds, even if here again on Selligent, we haven't really put our hands in the data. So, we can't say that we've radically changed the way we work. In any case, in the long term, the idea is also to not call on Fred as much and to be more autonomous in data research, segment creation, targeting and so on. That was really a primary need. That was what stood out. I also speak for Lætitia. I think we'll be aligned on that. Autonomy and easy access to data. Quickly and easily. Marion Duchatelet - Badsender Perhaps we could talk a little about the process by which we selected the service provider together. There was a system, if you remember, of interviews. I got to know everyone a little bit, which led to a set of specifications based on your marketing needs and on the current technical organization at the time. There were written responses. On the basis of these written responses, we selected service providers who could provide us with specifications. We met them for a demo. And once the demo was done, there were two left. And that's when we said to ourselves, "Well, we're going to set up a functional workshop and a technical workshop for each of them. To really share the screen and give them a bit of a challenge, and do an email. I'll send you a sample email and reproduce it in Selligent for the functional workshop. And I remember the technical workshop with Fred, we really got down to asking hyper-precise questions to make sure we knew how to raise these technical challenges. Because you've got, I remember, the RGPD purge, questions of duplicates that existed in different databases, in different information systems, stories of primary keys to choose. In short, did this process reassure you? Is the fact of having done these two workshops at the end, which are not common, often we stop at the demo, but having done these two workshops, something you would recommend? Sarah Leroi - WWF For the marketing side, it was really when we said to ourselves "Let's ask the question live, to create an emailing". That's when we were able to really see what functionalities were possible and what weren't. And that enabled us to project ourselves more confidently, perhaps. As a result, we were able to project ourselves more calmly and have more visibility and more arguments to say "For such and such reasons, it's better to use this tool". Marion Duchatelet - Badsender I remember that, and this is what I also see with the other customers I work with, is that in fact, at the end, especially in the marketing workshop, we want to see if it's "user friendly". What we call "user friendly". When you see a screen share, you can project yourself as a marketer and as a campaign manager, and say "OK, tomorrow I'll be in charge. Does that sound complicated or not? Or does it look fluid?" and I can really see myself using it. Sarah Leroi - WWF Yes, that's right. Marion Duchatelet - Badsender Someone is very curious and asks me if we can find out who the two finalists are. Sarah Leroi - WWF You could say we use Seligent, so it was one of the finalists. Marion Duchatelet - Badsender And the second was Actito in all transparency. In any case, in the marketing workshop phase, or the functional workshop as we call it, it's more to reassure the marketing team. They can look ahead and say, "Okay, if I'm in charge tomorrow, that's fine". Fred, in the technical workshop, was there anything that reassured you at the time, perhaps in their discourse or feasibility? Frédéric Souvay - WWF Yes, reassured! I wasn't extremely worried, but I think it's absolutely essential, because when you receive written answers and attend presentations, which are limited in time after all, you're bound to have questions that arise afterwards. It's important to validate that the chosen solution ticks all the boxes, and that's what happens in this workshop - you mentioned RGPD, for example - repercussions, deduplication, which are processes that already exist in other tools in our own data system. We wanted to make sure that it would work, that it would be passed on seamlessly. So it was extremely important for us to be able to validate these points, among others. So yes, it's important to come up with very concrete use cases, things that we can potentially already do with the tools we currently have in place, so we can make sure it's feasible. No offense to our fellow suppliers who may be in the audience, but there's always a slight gap between the presentation, the pre-sales approach, and the reality behind it. It's important to be able to challenge a little on fairly precise points to make sure we're going in the right direction. Marion Duchatelet - Badsender It's really the idea of getting away from the wow effect of the demo and saying "OK, now, how does it work when you're in the tool?" Frédéric Souvay - WWF Because even as a spectator at a demo, you can have stars in your eyes and not necessarily have any constraints in mind right away, especially if the demo is well done. Marion Duchatelet - Badsender There was one thing that really stood out for me. I have the impression that it really boosted the project. During the set-up workshop, or rather the technical workshop, I have the impression that at one point you arrived with a very well-done Excel table with your data dictionary. If I remember correctly, there was a table for each tab, and I have the impression that when Selligent saw this, it made things a lot clearer. As far as I'm concerned, it all went so smoothly because you'd done the work beforehand, which may well have stemmed from all our discussions. Because well before this technical workshop, there was the more functional marketing workshop where Sarah and Lætitia and I had listed all the segments they were going to need and all the cases of personalization and marketing scenarios. Can you explain this document to us? Do you have such a clear vision because it's your job and you're more of a database user? Did it help you to draw up this list of marketing segments, scenarios and personalization scenarios, or not so much? Frédéric Souvay - WWF I came up with all this, yes, firstly because it's my job, which I know well, and I think that's something that's very important. I know our data environment well. I think it's essential to document data sources, to know where they are, to know how existing tools communicate. With this habit, we arrive with precise documents because we have a precise knowledge of our data. Next, I'd like to take a step back. Earlier, we were talking about external support. We know how to do that, because we have the internal resources to do it. I think that certain structures, depending on their size and their human resources situation to date, are better able to do this than others. There aren't necessarily people in-house in these professions who have this capacity. It can be important to enlist the support of technical experts in these areas. Another factor is that we've arrived at something quite precise, in that we don't have a need that's atypical or exceptional compared with other players, whether in the commercial or non-commercial world. We haven't completely reinvented the wheel. As for Selligent, we hadn't reinvented our current solutions either. To finish with the functional workshops, what are the use cases, the segments, the scenarios we'd like to implement? Yes, it also helps because it allows us, perhaps at the final stage, to go back to the specification we've drawn up and check that we haven't forgotten anything. Like data, aggregates that are essential for setting up segments and scenarios. Marion Duchatelet - Badsender What also made things easier, and what I don't see with all our customers, was that there was only one contact person on the technical side, and that was you. On the other hand, you had a global and central vision that you dispatched to Eric on the Selligent side. We were talking a bit about this when we were preparing this live show, and maybe it's a good idea not to have 1,000 contacts, but rather to have a bridgehead on the technical side, a head on the marketing side, and not have ten people on the technical side? Sarah Leroi - WWF It's always better to try and centralize things. When you deploy this type of tool, you inevitably create interfaces with other players already in place. It's also very important, and that's my role, to get the different players involved in the project to communicate. In my opinion, they've done that very well. We also have a role to play, and that's what enables us to build good interfaces. Solid interfaces between solutions, which was the case for this project. Marion Duchatelet - Badsender After these two workshops came the deliverability workshop. I think this was one of the simpler workshops. I have the impression that it was more Sarah who intervened at this level. How do you feel about this deliverability workshop? Was it anecdotal or a challenge? Sarah Leroi - WWF Of course, we were already quite aware of the issue of derivability. It wasn't a training course, but at least it was a reminder of good practice. It wasn't difficult to grasp, compared with the other workshops. It's something we experienced with ease. Marion Duchatelet - Badsender But did you make this heating plan all by yourself? Sarah Leroi - WWF No, Selligent really helped us with this, sharing with us a week-by-week table with the proportions of mailings to be sent. Day by day or week by week, depending on the period, on a sliding scale. After that, several of us worked with Lætitia to put together the mailings. We had a lot of help with that. And then, with Fred, we worked hand in hand to make sure we had the right targeting. At one point, we had been blacklisted by Microsoft. We worked with them to see how we could integrate them or not. So no, it went very well. Marion Duchatelet - Badsender What I see is that the deliverability workshop often arrives fairly quickly. It arrives two months after the start of the project, so it's usually around January? Sarah Leroi - WWF Yes, maybe February, March, something like that, if I'm not mistaken. Marion Duchatelet - Badsender So you need to be ready to route. Sarah Leroi - WWF Yes, that's right. You have to be ready to route. But it's true that Selligent doesn't have the simplest email editor interface. So we decided to use your tool, because we thought it would be much simpler. This was already the case for the warm-up phase, but for the rest of the process, it's a tool we intend to keep, as it's really easy to use. In the end, it saved us an enormous amount of time. I don't know if we'd have been ready to start emailing if we hadn't had this tool. Because Selligent does take some getting used to. You can't just walk in. Clearly, as Fred was saying earlier, you've still got the "usual" work to do, because we were always using Mailjet out of the warm-up phase. So you still need time to get to grips with Selligent. In this case, Le Patron was a great help, because it took the mental load off our shoulders. Sarah Leroi - WWF We figured we knew how the email editor worked. In one hour, we had the training on Le Patron and then it was off. Marion Duchatelet - Badsender To be router-ready, you need to have a marketing template that's either router-side, if you decide to use the router builder, or, if you want to go faster, find an external resource. Sarah Leroi - WWF Yes, that's it. Marion Duchatelet - Badsender An interesting question from Pierre! Was it Fred's technical side or Sarah's marketing side that had the final say in the choice of Selligent? Sarah Leroi - WWF For the time being, we were aligned on the technical and marketing side. Marion Duchatelet - Badsender It's a funny question, since it's as if one side or the other had to take precedence over the decision. Sarah Leroi - WWF I'll answer that. I don't know if I'm missing the point or not. But it's true that for us, the need for the tool was more on the Fred side, for targeting and so on. It was really a "data" tool, at least not for marketers. As a result, we really needed a tool that was adapted for marketing, but that also had to be advanced enough to allow access to more advanced data. As a result, I found that Selligent met our marketing needs, and I think that in terms of data, it does the job too. I'll leave it to you Fred. Frédéric Souvay Yes, but in any case, the question is totally relevant, because it's true that you have to find the right compromise between the data part, interfacing capacity, etc., and the marketing part, for which I personally have a vision that's much less relevant than the one Sarah might have. As chance would have it, well, chance, I don't know if it's chance, but in the end, it's also linked to the shortlist we put together for the consultation. Overall, we had respondents with a good command of both subjects. In the end, no one was at a loss. Which meant that we could find each other quite easily. Which is why, when we chose Selligent, it was obviously by default. We chose Selligent because we felt it was the best option for us. But there was little risk of us disagreeing completely, since in any case, it ticked the boxes relatively well on both counts. Marion Duchatelet - Badsender I think it's important to talk about the role of the GM at this point, because he's the one who has the final say on the marketing budget. When do you think we should include the GM? Because, as he's the signatory, and it's not usually small budgets that he's in charge of this kind of tool, he still needs to validate something he understands, and understand the value of moving towards this type of solution, whereas we may have had something before that was less expensive, and which, in his eyes, may have done the job, because e mailings were still being sent out. When do we include the CEO in the box? Sarah Leroi - WWF Not in everything. Marion Duchatelet - Badsender Not in everything? Sarah Leroi - WWF Not in everything. Not in workshop, demo or other things. I'm not sure that's relevant. But more in... Is there still a significant amount of project coordination? We're talking about data and marketing, but it required internal coordination to pass on information about the project. How far have we got? Are we making any progress? What's been done? The workshops we've done. What came out, etc.? So we've had quite a few internal meetings and exchanges on where we stand. And I think it's at these moments that we need to debrief and say what came out of the workshops and the marketing data. Marion Duchatelet - Badsender I remember the little debriefing meetings we'd have after the demos or workshops. And it was important to include Benoît, if I remember correctly. So the CEO could follow the progress of our thinking and at the end he could say, OK, if you're aligned on the marketing and technical sides, that made his job easier. I'm going to have one last question for you both. Finally, what would you recommend to people who are planning to change their routing tool, so that it goes smoothly? What recommendations would you make? Frédéric Souvay - WWF First, start from the need. What am I going to do? How do I want to communicate with the audience? How finely do I want to communicate? That's the first step in asking the question. Let's talk about the solution we're looking for. Do we need something relatively simple? Maybe we'll have a fairly basic automation, or do we want something that will allow us to go into detail, to automate our knowledge with lots of criteria. If so, we'll need a more complex solution. I think you really have to start from the need. We also have to ask ourselves the question of data. I'm going to be preaching to the choir here. It's a question of taking stock of what's out there, taking stock of other tools. Are there things to improve, to make more coherent, to enrich in terms of data? Are there any existing interfaces that could have an impact on the future interface with the level of tools that need to be questioned? Are there other tools that need to be questioned? These are all questions we need to ask ourselves. Then, of course, comes the phase of expressing precise needs, whether from a marketing point of view, or from a data and data model point of view, and choosing service providers, analyzing responses and making the final choice. I'd tend to say that it's a good idea to be accompanied on this type of subject, to have an outside eye, particularly for the selection and final choice, which brings a little objectivity. Why is that? Because, on the one hand, we all have experience of the market, which remains rather limited and can be biased by the image we may have had of this or that solution five years ago. We know a little about it, or we've actually used it, but we also know that we're in a sector where tools are constantly evolving, for better or worse. You can start out with preconceived ideas that aren't necessarily up to date. This wasn't the case with the offer status, especially if you add outgoing service providers to the list of targets. This was not the case here. You may have a preconceived notion linked to the experience you have, the remaining experience you have with one of the service providers for whom you have customers, which isn't always very objective. Objectivity is extremely important, in my opinion. It helps you to make a decision or to confirm or even qualify a choice you've made. Marion Duchatelet - Badsender I'd add, in the word, I don't know if it's what you were going to say, but this timing thing, choosing the right shooting window. And it's not summer either, because employees are on vacation. Choosing the right timing between the seasonality of your business and the availability of those who are going to be in the solution business. Frédéric Souvay - WWF Timing is extremely important. In the end, we have to be able to make a choice that is consistent with the reasonable timing of the deployment we envisage. I'm going to come back to what I was saying earlier about the question of seasonality, which means that for us, this is a project that should have started and been specified, as you said earlier, Marion, at the end of the year, and which should have been rolled out at the beginning of the year. Consultation and decision-making have to be in line with this. That's the first thing. Behind that, I don't think we should hesitate - and personally, this may be a mistake I've made in past experiences - to put warnings and cautionary notes on the backgrounds of addicts who are totally surreal. Because very often, what I've observed, whether it's respondents or management on the customer side, we always see the fact that the project will be finished in 3 months, and we know that this has hardly ever happened. I think you absolutely have to say, "That's not possible, we can't do it in three months. On the other hand, in six months, we'll come up with something that can work properly without too much degradation. I don't think we should hesitate to impose ourselves on the schedule. What's more, there are always other constraints. This is particularly true when you start working with several service providers on the same project. There were certain aspects of the project for which we ended up with four people who had to agree. It quickly becomes complicated to get one to move forward so that the other can move forward, the first can move forward, and so on. This is where projects sometimes take a long time. For these networks, you need to have reasonable deployment schedules, and not hesitate to sell them to your management. Marion Duchatelet - Badsender Yes, and don't hesitate to add another two months to the schedule announced by the router. Because they want to please by saying "Don't worry, in three months it'll be done". But when you have to coordinate, as you said, several service providers, there's always the risk of internal absences. As Sarah said at the start, there are other projects that require changes in governance, and things that cause projects to drag on. Don't hesitate to add two or even three months to the initial schedule. Frédéric Souvay - WWF Yes, and even if we work, in my opinion, and this is very sincere, with service providers who are very good, who do their job well, we know that when we have a project, there's always an acceptance phase behind it. The majority of what's been specified works well, but there are things that don't work well, things that go back and forth, corrections, projects that are nickel-and-dimed from A to Z as soon as they're delivered, they never work. The acceptance phase is very important. Earlier, we were talking about the preliminary phase, i.e. getting to know the ecosystem over time, which is essential, but also afterwards, once you've got an operation or are in the process of setting it up, it's vital to get to grips with it from top to bottom. Otherwise, if you skip this step two months, three months, six months later, you say to yourself, "Well, this isn't working. And that's where we sometimes lose a little time on projects. Marion Duchatelet - Badsender And you, Sarah, would you have any special advice for someone who wants to change tools? Sarah Leroi - WWF Beyond anticipating, trying to list as much as possible... I'm talking about marketing here. But trying to list as many cycles or emailings as possible, but in any case the data we're going to need to do personalization or segments. Even if, as Fred was saying, we didn't start from scratch by doing this exercise. But I think it's a good idea to do it, precisely to realize what's really feasible in the tools and what isn't. It's not a bad idea to plan ahead. It's a good idea to project yourself as far as possible when choosing a tool. I remember that among the very first service providers who responded, there was one who was too calibrated for us. I think I can say the name, Salesforce was too calibrated for us, I think. And conversely, don't choose a tool that's too small. Try to take a tool that's calibrated enough for the ambitions of the company and marketing. I don't know if I'm making myself clear. Marion Duchatelet - Badsender Yes, it's pretty clear, but it reminds me of something else. I remember a presentation where the router would say, "Oh, we don't have that yet, but it'll be in the 2021 or 2022 roadmap at the time. And you'd go "OK, cool". I said to Lætitia, "Wait a minute, you can't choose a tool based on something that's going to be on the roadmap. When you choose a tool, you have to be sure that it meets your needs. And what's going to be on the roadmap may not meet your needs. You don't know." And for me, it's always a bit of a "Wow, that's good, it'll be in the roadmap" thing. We at Badsender know a thing or two about what's in the roadmap. You can't follow it to the letter, it depends on a lot of things. Besides, you don't know what the tool is going to deliver in terms of functionality. It may not correspond to your needs. For me, there's one point to be careful of: don't bet on a tool when you're told it's going to be on the roadmap... That reminded me of what you just said. Sorry, I cut you off. Sarah Leroi - WWF That's right. And for the record, I'm not trying to promote Badsender, but I think that from a marketing point of view, it really reassured us. It was good for us to be supported and to feel listened to and supported by your expertise. Because at the end of the day, having an outside service provider who knows the platforms inside out gives us an insight we don't have. And beyond that, I think it's great to have a sort of neutral referent who navigates between data, marketing, or even the whole package. I remember we also had meetings where, as you said, Benoît and Dominique, the directors were there, and so you were there too. I think it's great to have this link, these people in charge of the project. Marion Duchatelet - Badsender So much the better if we've done our job in that respect. Still, I have the impression that we reassured the marketing side more than the technical side. I'd like to thank you both for your open discussions. I wish you a good day. See you all later.
The participants
Sarah Leroi has been in charge of digital marketing in the Public Generosity department of the NGO WWF France for 6 years. She develops donor loyalty strategies, digital fundraising campaigns and acquisition strategies.
Linkedin link: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-leroi/
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Frédéric Souvay has been Database Expert at WWF France for over 6 years. He previously held the same position at Médecins du Monde.
Linkedin link: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fr%C3%A9d%C3%A9ric-souvay-0b05817/
Marion Duchatelet : She advises Badsender's clients in their emailing strategy and in the choice of their tools. She organizes master template design workshops for email builder LePatron. She writes articles, hosts lives and the podcast "Sobriety & Marketing...possible?", does training with Badsender but not only that, she jumps on all good ideas to make sure they become reality. She never gives up, never! She wants to understand everything, EVERYTHING!
Linkedin link: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marionbajeux/
